A Discussion On Collapsing the Union
Bruce Bartlett posted a link to this article by Alex Seitz-wald in the Atlantic magazine about the reasons we need a new U.S. Constitution, how we would go about it, and how we should change it.
I take things a step further and argue we need not simply a new constitution but a brand new set of countries made up of the current union we have. (My commentary is in block quotes below.)
I’ve long argued the U.S. Constitution is a long-dead document which has far too many holes and has always been broken. Nobody considers our government a functional government anymore. Not even WE think it’s a functioning government. It is one of the most dysfunctional governments in the entire world and it’s becoming even MORE dysfunctional because our Constitution is flawed and because we are not the same nation we used to be.
Our country has become more than just one country; we’re more than two countries. We are three countries separated by a glowing political and socio-economic divide. If we are to create a new Constitution, we need to create three new countries out of what we have. If we attempt to salvage this sinking ship with a Constitutional Convention with the political forces we have today, it won’t work. It will never work – because we are no longer brothers and sisters under one union.
Darius: That’s bullshit Edwin. Our diversity is our greatest strength and as such we should leverage that to our fullest advantage.
Our diversity is exactly why we have Ted Cruz in office. He doesn’t want to govern the United States of America. He wants to govern a completely different country. And we’re going to create even more Ted Cruzes as the years come along.
Hell, no. This country has LONG been divided. We are still waging the Civil War today. It’s time we cut our losses and move the hell on.
D: I am not willing to give up.
Good for you.
Jonathan: Darius, the diversity that is the United States can be used as a strength, but it can also be used as a weakness. Right now, it IS a weakness, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be turned around. Thing is, people need to want to turn it around. It’s THAT desire that doesn’t seem to be existing.
People don’t want it to turn around. Hell, I don’t want it to turn around.
D: I thought Democrats cared about America. What happened!
These attempts to turn things around are nothing more than charitable attempts at prolonging a problem. We’ve been on life support for more than 100 years. We should have pulled that plug a long time ago.
I care about people. Fuck America. I don’t worship a farce.
D: Now the truth comes out.
Here comes Darius using me as an example of all Democrats.
I’m sure of it.
D: No I am just wondering why. Why don’t people care more about their country?!
J: Darius, interesting that many people talk about caring more for their country, yet at the same time espousing libertarian principles and absolute individualism.
D: What?! I am a socialist! I want to help people be better and to show them that helping people is good!
I do care about country, but not for the same mythical reasons others do. I care about country because we need certain barriers for economic reasons. Beyond that, there is no reason whatsoever for the geographic delineations we have.But the United States is a SUBOPTIMAL economic area. The policies that are beneficial for one part of the country (population centers) are very damaging to other giant geographical areas (rustic/agrarian areas). This is actually one of the main reasons we have such stark differences in our economic beliefs in the U.S. – and, in turn, political differences. It’s not merely culture, it’s economic as well.
We should have been separated into at least three different optimal economic areas a long time ago. These areas would have been more politically reasonable as well.
D: I love my country, even with all the shit it has, too much to see it fall into oblivion. I don’t like what has been happening now and I want a change and will get that change or die trying.
You’ll be long dead before this country is back together. Hell, I’ll be one of those fighting to keep it broken.
D: But you came here. Why?
I was brought here when I was 4 years old. That’s not “coming here.”
And besides, who else came here and changed the local government?
Immigrants are the best input to social, economic and political change for any country.
Immigrants bring new ideas to natives who are too stuck in their patriotic, nationalist interests to look at better options.
D: It is, actually, though not by volition, but by fate. I asked that because you’re an example of people who came and decided to start something. I want everyone who wants to contribute anything that they can give to come HERE and grow this country! I am not some jingoistic nativist, but an open-world human.
Darius Smith And that starts by building US up by OUR own hands.
“I want everyone who wants to contribute anything that they can give to come HERE and grow this country!”
This country has a ton of potential to grow further but it’s being hamstrung by the fact it’s constitutionally flawed and crippled by the diversity you espouse as a good thing.
Diversity is a great thing, but the makeup of this country’s diversity isn’t so much diversity as it is the beginnings of another revolution. Instead of continuing this downward slide toward a violent revolution as both sides become more and more antagonistic of each other, it’s best to cut your losses and move on.
“And that starts by building US up by OUR own hands.”
That doesn’t mean we have to build on top of a pile of shit.
D: So we should start kicking people out? That’s not fair for them.
Where the heck are you getting that?
D: You see the polarization of both sides as bad (as I agree), but cutting our losses could mean people being deported.
No one needs to be deported. The country has already done a great job of segregating itself into the different political and economic philosophies. We just need a few more decades and the south and midwest will be almost 100% red and the northeast and west will be almost 100% blue.
There are your three new economically and politically optimal areas.
D: What will happen to our military? What happens to all the connections that bond us?
Three different nations, they can do whatever the heck they want.
What bonds connect us, Darius?
A flawed constitution which half the country believes is legitimate and the other half believes the other half of the constitution is legitimate?
Please, the bonds were in tatters in 1861. They’re all but completely torn.
D: Highways and airports and bridges and trains, what will become of them?
Why do you think the Tea Party is so much like the neo-Confederate? Why do you think there’s such a thing as the Southern National Congress?
You think there’s nothing connecting the countries in Europe?
D: But they’re the EU! And the EU is the largest economy in the world!
The EU is completely flawed as well.
The EU is one singular central bank that is supposed to watch out for the economies of a bunch of different types of countries.
What’s good for Germany is bad for Italy, Greece, and other countries.
What’s good for New York and Massachusetts and California is bad for states like Wyoming, Missouri, Georgia, and almost every other red state.
We don’t need a single country representing all these different types of economies. We are screwed because of it
The only – THE ONLY – good thing that can come out of staying a unified country as we have now is we’d save money on designing new flags.
D: Fine! Let the whole damn thing collapse. It won’t be pretty!
It ain’t pretty now.
Just give me a few minutes to move out of Indiana and back northeast. Ick.